{"id":492735,"date":"2025-12-05T21:38:31","date_gmt":"2025-12-05T12:38:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/hpupdate.info\/?p=492735"},"modified":"2025-12-06T03:05:49","modified_gmt":"2025-12-05T18:05:49","slug":"post-0-39522","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hpupdate.info\/?p=492735","title":{"rendered":"\u30e2\u30fc\u30cb\u30f3\u30b0\u5a18\u300212\u671f\u30e1\u30f3\u30d0\u30fc\u5c3e\u5f62\u6625\u6c34\u3055\u3093\u3001\u4e00\u822c\u5ba2\u3068\u3057\u3066\u30e2\u30fc\u30cb\u30f3\u30b0\u5a18\u3002\u201925\u6a2a\u6d5c\u30a2\u30ea\u30fc\u30ca\u3092\u89b3\u306b\u884c\u304f\uff01\uff01\uff01\uff01\uff01"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"ID1\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">1<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:09:34.16<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u5bae\u672c \u4f73\u5948\uff08\u30bf\u30a4\u30e0\u30e9\u30d7\u30b9\uff09@Kana_TimeLap<\/p>\n<p>\u30e2\u30fc\u30cb\u30f3\u30b0\u5a18\u3002\u201925 \u3055\u3093\u306e\u30b3\u30f3\u30b5\u30fc\u30c8\u30c4\u30a2\u30fc\u3001<br \/>\n\uff5eMovin\u2019 Forward with Hope\uff5e<br \/>\n\u7fbd\u8cc0\u6731\u97f3\u3055\u3093\u3001\u6a2a\u5c71\u73b2\u5948\u3055\u3093\u306e\u5352\u696d\u516c\u6f14\u3092\u89b3\u306b\u884c\u304d\u307e\u3057\u305f!!&#129505;&#128155;<br \/>\n\u7f8e\u3057\u304b\u3063\u305f\u3067\u3059<br \/>\n#\u5a1825_MF<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/pbs.twimg.com\/media\/G7Z10QobIAAB16S.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/pbs.twimg.com\/media\/G7Z10QobIAAB16S.jpg\" width=640><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/pbs.twimg.com\/media\/G7Z10QnakAEiu-6.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/pbs.twimg.com\/media\/G7Z10QnakAEiu-6.jpg\" width=640><\/a><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID3\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">3<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:10:26.61<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u95a2\u4fc2\u8005\u5e2d\u306f\u306a\u3093\u3067\u306a\u3044\u3093<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID5\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">5<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:12:16.02<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>3<\/div>\n<p>\u6a2a\u30a2\u30ea\u306f\u95a2\u4fc2\u8005\u5e2d\u304c\u3081\u3061\u3083\u3081\u3061\u3083\u5c11\u306a\u3044<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID4\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">4<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:12:05.92<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>1<\/div>\n<p>\u5bae\u672c\u4f73\u6797\u304b\u3068\u601d\u3063\u305f\u308f<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID15\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">15<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:37:42.27<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>4<\/div>\n<p>\u3069\u3053\u3082\u4f3c\u3066\u306a\u3044<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID16\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">16<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:38:52.05<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>15<\/div>\n<p>\u540d\u524d\u3060\u308dw<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID27\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">27<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:40:24.08<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>4<\/div>\n<p>\u81ea\u5206\u3082w<br \/>\n\u66ab\u304f\u30c8\u30d4\u306e\u610f\u5473\u304c\u3088\u304f\u5206\u304b\u3089\u306a\u304f\u306a\u3063\u305fw<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID6\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">6<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:12:22.38<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u305d\u308a\u3083\u95a2\u4fc2\u8005\u3067\u306f\u306a\u3044\u77e5\u4eba\u3068\u884c\u304f\u306a\u3089\u4e00\u822c\u5e2d\u3060\u308d\u3046<br \/>\n1\u4eba\u3067\u884c\u304f\u306a\u3089\u3068\u3082\u304b\u304f<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID7\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">7<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:13:04.19<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u9762\u304c\u5730\u4e0b\u3063\u307d\u3044<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID8\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">8<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:15:01.10<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u5bae\u672c\u4f73\u25cb\u3063\u3066\u540d\u524d\u304c\u7d1b\u3089\u308f\u3057\u3044<\/div>\n<p><font size=\"2\" color=\"gray\">\u30b9\u30dd\u30f3\u30b5\u30fc\u30ea\u30f3\u30af<\/font><script async src=\"https:\/\/pagead2.googlesyndication.com\/pagead\/js\/adsbygoogle.js?client=ca-pub-4711155436491779\"\n     crossorigin=\"anonymous\"><\/script><br \/>\n<!-- hp_square10 --><br \/>\n<ins class=\"adsbygoogle\"\n     style=\"display:block\"\n     data-ad-client=\"ca-pub-4711155436491779\"\n     data-ad-slot=\"8881653727\"\n     data-ad-format=\"auto\"\n     data-full-width-responsive=\"true\"><\/ins><br \/>\n<script>\n     (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});\n<\/script><\/p>\n<div id=\"ID9\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">9<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:15:03.34<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u76f8\u5909\u308f\u3089\u305a\u30d7\u30ed\u30c7\u30e5\u30fc\u30b5\u30fc\u304c\u4e00\u756a\u53ef\u611b\u3044\u306e\u304b<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID10\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">10<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:21:37.46<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u3069\u306e\u3042\u305f\u308a\u306b\u3044\u305f\uff1f<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID11\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">11<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:27:15.21<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u3048\u30fc\u3061\u3087\u3063\u3068\u6ce3\u304d\u305d\u3046<br \/>\n\u3044\u3044\u3084\u3064\u3084\u3093<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID12\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">12<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:27:56.34<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \uff89\uff98\uff65 \uff61\uff65\uff98\uff1c\u30d5\u30a1\uff1f\uff01<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID13\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">13<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:28:55.96<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u76f8\u5909\u308f\u3089\u305a\u9676\u5668\u307f\u305f\u3044\u306b\u7dba\u9e97\u306a\u304a\u808c\u3060\u306a<br \/>\n\u307e\u305f\u89e6\u308a\u305f\u3044<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID14\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">14<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:30:33.86<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u306f\u30fc\u3061\u3093\u307e\u3063\u305f\u304f\u8001\u3051\u306a\u3044\u306a\u7dba\u9e97<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID17\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">17<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:41:03.60<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>1<\/div>\n<p>\u666e\u901a\u306b\u62db\u5f85\u67a0\u3060\u308d<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID18\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">18<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:43:47.55<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u68ee\u6238\u306e\u6642\u3082\u666e\u901a\u306b\u30c1\u30b1\u8cb7\u3063\u3066\u305f\u307d\u304b\u3063\u305f\u3063\u3051<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID20\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">20<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:51:20.94<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u7236\u89aa\u304c\u6b7b\u3093\u3060\u76f4\u5f8c\u306b\u81ea\u5206\u306e\u5352\u30b3\u30f3\u306b\u51fa\u3066\u304f\u308c\u305f\u3093\u3060\u305e<br \/>\n\u884c\u304b\u306a\u3044\u9078\u629e\u80a2\u304c\u306a\u3044<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID21\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">21<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:11:27.26<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u5c3e\u5f62\u3068\u6a2a\u5c71\u306e\u7d61\u307f\u3063\u3066\u8a18\u61b6\u306b\u306a\u3044\u306a<br \/>\n\u30e4\u30f3\u30bf\u30f3\u30ec\u30ae\u30e5\u30e9\u30fc\u4e89\u3044\u3067\u8ca0\u3051\u305f\u5f8c\u306b\u3059\u3050\u8f9e\u3081\u305f\u5370\u8c61<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID25\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">25<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:33:47.25<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>21<\/div>\n<p>\u30b9\u30bf\u30c3\u30d5\u304c\u5909\u306a\u6271\u3044\u3057\u305f\u304b\u3089\u306a<br \/>\n\u5e74\u4e0b\u306e\u7fbd\u8cc0\u306f\u307e\u3060\u8010\u3048\u3089\u308c\u305f\u3051\u3069\u5e74\u9577\u3067\u5148\u8f29\u306e\u5c3e\u5f62\u306b\u306f\u304d\u3064\u304b\u3063\u305f\u3060\u308d\u3046<\/p><\/div>\n<p><font size=\"2\" color=\"gray\">\u30b9\u30dd\u30f3\u30b5\u30fc\u30ea\u30f3\u30af<\/font><script async src=\"https:\/\/pagead2.googlesyndication.com\/pagead\/js\/adsbygoogle.js?client=ca-pub-4711155436491779\"\n     crossorigin=\"anonymous\"><\/script><br \/>\n<!-- hp_square11 --><br \/>\n<ins class=\"adsbygoogle\"\n     style=\"display:block\"\n     data-ad-client=\"ca-pub-4711155436491779\"\n     data-ad-slot=\"2319258571\"\n     data-ad-format=\"auto\"\n     data-full-width-responsive=\"true\"><\/ins><br \/>\n<script>\n     (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});\n<\/script><\/p>\n<div id=\"ID22\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">22<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:12:38.89<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u5c3e\u5f62\u5352\u30b3\u30f3\u5f8c\u306e\u697d\u5c4b\u30b7\u30fc\u30f3\u306f\u6d99\u7121\u3057\u306b\u306f\u898b\u3089\u308c\u306a\u3044<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID24\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">24<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:33:20.94<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u7fa9\u7406\u5805\u3044\u306f\u30fc\u3061\u3093<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID26\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">26<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:39:22.29<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u6765\u5e74\u306e\u5c0f\u7530\u5352\u30b3\u30f3\u306b\u306f\u7d76\u5bfe\u884c\u304b\u306a\u3044\u3051\u3069\u306a<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID30\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">30<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 23:04:39.11<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>26<\/div>\n<p>\u72fc\u8133\u306e\u30a2\u30db\u767a\u898b<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID33\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">33<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 23:56:04.27<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>26<\/div>\n<p>\u672c\u5f53\u306b\u6b7b\u3093\u3060\u304b\u78ba\u304b\u3081\u306b\u846c\u5f0f\u306b\u3084\u3063\u3066\u6765\u308b\u897f\u90e8\u5287\u3042\u308b\u3042\u308b<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID28\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">28<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:46:38.88<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u540c\u671f\u306e\u5352\u696d\u3060\u3057\u306a<br \/>\n\u91ce\u4e2d\u306e\u6642\u3082\u306f\u30fc\u3061\u3047\u308b\u306e\u76f8\u65b9\u3068\u3057\u3066\u6765\u308b\u3060\u308d<br \/>\n\u7267\u91ce\u306e\u6642\u306f\u77e5\u3089\u3093<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID29\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">29<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 22:56:26.10<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u58f2\u308c\u3063\u5b50\u30d7\u30ed\u30c7\u30e5\u30fc\u30b5\u30fc\u306f\u30fc\u3061\u3093\u304c\u9ad8\u307f\u306e\u898b\u7269<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID31\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">31<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 23:06:46.20<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u5c0f\u7530\u3068\u5c3e\u5f62\u306e\u308f\u3060\u304b\u307e\u308a\u306f\u30ac\u30c1\u3060\u304b\u3089\u306a<br \/>\n\u5f53\u6642\u5148\u8f29\u3067\u6575\u5074\u3060\u3063\u305f\u8b5c\u4e45\u6751\u77f3\u7530\u5c0f\u7530\u306e\u3046\u3061\u5f8c\u304b\u3089\u548c\u89e3\u3057\u305f\u306e\u306f\u8b5c\u4e45\u6751\u3060\u3051\u3060\u3057<\/div>\n<div id=\"ID34\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\" style=\"margin-left:20px\"><span class=\"postid\">34<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/06(\u571f) 02:09:51.30<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\" style=\"margin-left:20px\">\n<div class=\"reply_link\">>>31<\/div>\n<p>\u30b3\u30f3\u30b5\u30fc\u30c8\u3067\u3044\u3061\u3083\u3064\u3044\u3066\u305f\u306e\u3082\u898b\u3066\u306a\u3044\u3093\u3060\u308d\u3046\u306a\uff57<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"ID32\" ><\/div>\n<div class=\"meta\"><span class=\"postid\">32<\/span><span class=\"postusername\">\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u3002<\/span><span class=\"date\">2025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 23:24:18.30<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"message\"> \u5927\u962a\u751f\u307e\u308c\u306e\u4e00\u4eba\u3063\u5b50\u5c3e\u5f62\u306f\u30fc\u3061\u3093<br \/>\n\u6771\u4eac\u751f\u307e\u308c\u306e\u4e00\u4eba\u3063\u5b50\u5c0f\u7247\u308a\u3055\u307e\u308b<\/div>\n<p><font size=1 color=lightgray>\u5f15\u7528\u5143:https:\/\/kizuna.5ch.net\/test\/read.cgi\/morningcoffee\/1764936574<\/font><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>1\u540d\u7121\u3057\u52df\u96c6\u4e2d\u3002\u3002\u30022025\/12\/05(\u91d1) 21:09:34.16 \u5bae\u672c \u4f73\u5948\uff08\u30bf\u30a4\u30e0\u30e9\u30d7\u30b9\uff09@Kana_TimeLap \u30e2\u30fc\u30cb\u30f3\u30b0\u5a18\u3002\u201925 \u3055\u3093\u306e\u30b3\u30f3\u30b5\u30fc\u30c8\u30c4\u30a2\u30fc\u3001 \uff5eMovin\u2019 Forward with Ho 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